Diary meets… Real Estate Balance’s Sue Brown

The fourth EDI survey is underway – what are the aims behind it, and are there any changes this year? When the original seven founding members of REB came together in 2015, they were keen to make sure that they were empirical in their approach. They thought the best way of doing that was to do a survey, and they’ve done them every two years. We will be reporting on this year’s in early 2023. A lot of the questions remain the same, because we want to compare like with like. But, obviously, REB has very much been about gender balance since it started, and when I became managing director – on April Fool’s Day 2020, in the middle of a pandemic, make of that what you will – I wanted to make sure we were also looking at issues around race, ethnicity and social mobility. We have done that in this survey. What were the key findings last time? The main thing was an improvement in the number of women in senior positions in the industry. But there was disquiet among a lot of those women. Many were really unhappy with their role. We are looking forward to getting an updated and fuller picture of gender diversity in real estate, particularly as we have expanded our membership and increased our visibility since the last survey. REB has targeted 50% representation of women on boards – how’s that going? My feeling is that, while gender balance in the boardroom is achievable by the end of the decade, we unfortunately may be waiting longer for the brilliant, dedicated women in our industry to be rewarded with a fairer number of senior management positions. Board-level parity is relatively easy to address via non-executive director appointments – the real challenge is at the layer below, which has not improved over the past five years. But social mobility is a difficult problem to tackle? Of course. Because, how do you identify it? I speak with a very strong London accent, which is probably an indication that I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth – and, indeed, I wasn’t. But it can be difficult to identify. How you ask questions about social mobility is really interesting. In this survey, we’ve asked people about whether or not their parents went to university, and what sort of job the main family breadwinner had. Something I talk about all the time is how we make property more attractive to a whole range of people. A lot of parents want their kids to become doctors, lawyers or accountants, probably because they want them to make a few bob, and good luck to them. But people just don’t understand enough about property. What is your philosophy for dealing with people who insist there isn’t a D&I problem in real estate? People who think there isn’t a problem have themselves got a real problem and literally won’t survive, commercially. The world is changing hugely, and it’s not good enough to say, “but it doesn’t apply to us”. It does. And, if you think it doesn’t, you’re in for a real shock. You won’t be able to recruit the younger generation. My kids are 33 and 30, and one is in the industry. They happen to be incredibly woke, you will not be surprised to learn. The next generation is just not going to find acceptable the things that my generation lived with. Not that we found it acceptable, but you had no choice. We just had to get on with it. You mentioned the W word. Do you get called woke often? Not ever! I don’t think anyone calls me woke, because I’m far too old. I’m the parent of woke, I suppose. I graduated 44 years ago, and the first job I went for was as a graduate trainee at the London Borough of Wandsworth. I was probably the best suited for the job because I had local government experience in my year out, but I wasn’t taken on because I was a woman. That stays with you forever. I’m of that generation that had to fight for everything we’ve now got. So, if somebody calls me woke, I would see that as the greatest compliment. Your job must be hard, but also immensely rewarding It’s the greatest job I’ve ever had. I’ve been in consultancy for 30 years, but this job is the culmination of everything and it will be the last job I do. I absolutely love it. I always said that, before I retired, I wanted to have made a difference. Whether I have, I don’t know. But our great success at REB is that we’re actually raising the issues around gender, race, ethnicity and social mobility, and if I’ve done no more than that, I’ll be happy. On top of taking on the role during a pandemic, you’ve also had health issues to deal with I was diagnosed with breast cancer about 18 months ago and I’ve really been through it. You know, the whole shebang: mastectomy and chemotherapy and radiotherapy. But, touch wood, I’m coming through. I think state of mind has an impact. I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t bring you down – it does, but life goes on, really. That seems to be the way you’ve got to tackle it. You must need time to relax, decompress and work out your frustrations – how do you do that? My frustrations? I support Chelsea Football Club! It’s a very up-and-down relationship. I was brought up in Balham, at the time of Peter Osgood, David Webb, Peter Bonetti and Ron Harris. That’s why I support Chelsea. Now I’m a season ticket holder and live 10 minutes from Stamford Bridge, it’s an absolute joy. So my spare time is spent either at Chelsea or looking after my grandson, who I am totally, completely and utterly obsessed with. Respond to REB’s EDI Survey before 3 October >>