Diary meets… Joy Nazzari

Joy Nazzari, founding director of dn&co and Showhere, talks to Jess Harrold about “place purpose”, real estate branding and her passion for Pride and Prejudice. You’re at a dinner party and someone asks you what you do for a living. What do you say? I’ve lived in the UK for 22 years, so the first thing I would do is turn the question around and get them to answer it. It’s terribly un-British to talk about yourself, but it is very American. The fastest answer would be: I’ve worked in brand consultancy in the built environment space for 20 years, but I am very, very interested in the technology space. You literally wrote the book on placemaking with Know Your Place – how do you sum up the core concept of “place purpose”? Simon Yewdall, director of strategy at dn&co, and I wrote that together. I like to describe it as a love letter to the industry – like, “Hey, this is all the stuff that some of your peers do really well.” Place purpose is the reason a place exists based on human-centric needs. Enlightened developers put the human being and the customer at the centre of everything. Where is your favourite place? I’m always happiest on a boat. Sailing comes across as a very posh sport but, in actual fact, it’s caravanning on the water. Maybe it’s because I’m a Pisces, but I’ve always lived by water – Rio, San Francisco… arguably London has a river. But Japan was a feast for the senses. I love the people, the architecture of the cities, the art, the food. Last year you wrote for EG about how you’re tired of hearing the phrase “live, work, play”… Oh yes, still tired. I still see it all the time. The eye-rolls in the studio… everyone goes, “Oh, look Joy – another one.” It’s pernicious, like a weed. What else frustrates you in real estate? Occasionally, a lack of ambition. My least favourite phrase I ever heard come out of a client’s mouth was, “I just want an easy life, Joy.” There are people in the industry who show up every day to change the world – those are the people I really like to work with. Every project has the opportunity to create a little bit of magic which contributes to the world in a special way. When people are not willing to take the time to do that, that’s sad. What makes a successful real estate brand in 2022? We talk about brand as creating a connection. It’s never about colours or logos. It’s about whether or not we were successful at creating that connection between human beings and a place. What makes a bad brand? A bad brand is tone deaf to what’s going on in the world right now. You still see brands whose CGIs have all white people. If you are unaware of the social mix around you, frankly, in this day and age, I think it’s bad. This isn’t woke – we have a responsibility to accurately reflect the world around us today. What is your message to anyone thinking of a career in this space? The people who are successful bring optimism and creativity to the room. When times are tough, you need to have hope. “Don’t worry guys, we can get through” needs to be your stance. And tell your boss the career you want to have. Be an active architect in your own career path – those are the people I’m really excited to watch. You were born in Brazil, educated in California and began your career in Silicon Valley. Is there anything they can teach the UK about placemaking? Golly. Both have a lot to learn from us. We tend to think because of how innovative Silicon Valley is that they are really ahead. But actually Americans are deeply conservative (small C) and I think we are more creative and innovative here. I am excited because we are hoping to open a New York office this summer, and that’s because a lot of our thinking here is massively exportable. One thing I would say to the British: we always think we are behind, but actually we are ahead in many ways and need to spread that thinking. You have definitely been here for 22 years, because you said “golly”… Get me on a fiery topic and you will hear a really American “God damn it!” What is the best piece of career advice you have ever been given? I love to quote my mom. She always said to me, “You get more bees with honey.” It took me a long time to really know what that meant. Early in my career, I was pretty feisty. And I realised later on, if we all stay sweet and fun, we are going to have a better time, and probably a better outcome. That’s when you stopped saying “God damn it” and started saying “golly”… The timing of that is probably not too far off! Brazil, the USA and England are all at the World Cup this year – who will you be rooting for? I’ll be wearing yellow and green. I watched the World Cup every four years with my dad growing up. I think my husband will be rooting for England, but it will be very interesting to see what my kids do. That’s the real question. What’s the best thing you’ve binge-watched recently? We’re very fond of Avatar the Last Airbender. It’s Japanese and actually deeply spiritual. My husband and I watch it with our kids, and we’ll say, “Ooh, that’s really profound.” And what’s your guilty pleasure? Whenever my husband goes away, I always watch Pride and Prejudice. The BBC version, Keira Knightley version, every version – including the Bollywood one. It’s one of my favourite books. I love Elizabeth Bennet, the ultimate heroine. Do you have a favourite joke? Yes. Can we publish it? I wouldn’t tell you any of those ones! It’s from my former business partner, Ben. What did the zero say to the eight? Nice belt.   To send feedback, e-mail jess.harrold@eg.co.uk or tweet @EGPropertyNews Image © Louise Haywood-Schiefer