EG meets… David Mann and Saleem Fazal, property’s latest MBEs

David Mann and Saleem Fazal stood down as co-chairs of Freehold, the LGBTQ+ forum they founded in 2011, in February last year. On New Year’s Day they each received a well-deserved present. Was hearing you had been awarded an MBE a surprise? David Mann: It never occurred to me I’d get an Honour. Morecambe and Wise get Honours. Ant and Dec get Honours. Saleem Fazal: It was quite a shocking start to the year! You knew you had been nominated before though, right? DM: We knew we’d been nominated at the end of November. But I just got an email with a letter from the Cabinet Office saying – in strictest confidence – the prime minister is recommending you for an honour in the New Year Honours list. His Royal Highness King Charles, etc. As I was reading it, I just wanted to get to the bottom to see where it said who was playing the joke on me. Or: ‘Now all I need is your credit card number’? SF: Exactly! Especially as it came by email. I was immediately suspicious. I went through the motions of denial, can’t be right, it’s a joke… Did you call each other to check it wasn’t a hoax? DM: Yeah, it was a bit emotional really – we both almost burst into tears. And they can always take it away, right up until the day. Now I’m feeling a bit of imposter syndrome. I haven’t done enough to deserve it, really. But it is thanks to movements like Freehold you and countless other LGBTQ+ people in the industry don’t have to feel like imposters. DM: Yeah. That’s true. If I think back to the pre-Freehold days, there wasn’t any visibility of LGBT people in the industry. SF: In the main, I was out with my immediate colleagues at work; they knew about my partner. But I wasn’t necessarily out with all my clients. And I certainly wasn’t out in the wider industry. And David was pretty much in that same position. DM: I used to take one of my girl friends to work events. You are almost living a double life. You have your husband or boyfriend at home, but it felt like you could never really talk about them. SF: In the early days, when I was a trainee solicitor, I was regularly changing the pronouns of my partners. I was leading a double life. DM: There was a perception that the industry was homophobic, just because of banter as opposed to anything particularly abusive. But we felt, it’s been like this for hundreds of years, who are you to change that? You just kept your head down and got on with the job but were never fully fulfilled. SF: And that was what spurred us on, to think that it’s absolutely ridiculous that we knew each other professionally, had some clients in common, had been out to lunch with each other’s teams and yet this shared aspect of our lives had never emerged in conversation. The story of how you came to set up Freehold has been told many times, but I think it’s worth another telling. SF: Yeah. He was actually sitting outside on one of the picnic benches of one of the local gay bars in my street. DM: It was at Kasbah on Clapham High Street – it’s no longer there, unfortunately. But yeah, I was having a pint with my male partner and Saleem walked past with his male partner. I didn’t know whether to disappear under the table or embrace him. And that was how the conversation started, saying, isn’t this ridiculous that there’s no kind of safe space to meet? There should be a pink plaque on that building. This is where Freehold was founded. And a first meeting intended to be for a handful of people turned into 68 guests as word spread. SF: We thought there would be a backlash. DM: Instead, there was so much support. And so much interest. There was clearly a need. Freehold has grown and grown, with a board and 1,300 or so members, and is helping more LGBTQ+ members of the industry to feel like they can be themselves. The board and members of Freehold nominated you for your MBEs. But I’ve heard you may have to wait to collect them. SF: There is a bit of a backlog because of Covid, and I’m not sure where it will be – maybe Buckingham Palace, maybe Windsor Castle. And I think we’ll get whichever working Royal is on duty that day. But do you get a plus one? And who will get to see you follow in the footsteps of Ant and Dec? SF: Actually, we do quite a good Ant and Dec impression when we are on stage. DM: For me it would be Graham, my long-suffering partner. He’s been a sort of widow to Freehold, so that will be a small repayment. SF: That’s a very good question. There’s obviously my husband. But there’s also my mother. I think one of them will have to deselect themselves. To send feedback, e-mail piers.wehner@eg.co.uk or tweet @PiersWehner or @EGPropertyNews